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Hi everyone! Welcome back to Episode #3 of Feminine Wealth TV. Today I am excited to be interviewing Fiona Cosgrove, a Wellness Coach with years of experience in business and in the wellness industry.
We discuss the intertwining nature of wealth and wellness – if you lack in either it tends to impede the other. Fiona provides some great insights into this relationship as well as lessons she has learned over her years in business.
Prefer to read? See full transcription below!
Barbara Turley: Hi there. I’m Barbara Turley and you’re watching Feminine Wealth TV, the show that uncovers the diamond tips on creating truly conscious wealth from change makers, world shakers, and wealth creators. Today I’m joined on the show by Fiona Cosgrove of Wellness Coaching Australia. Fiona, truly is another change maker that has joined this show. Fiona, has 25 years experience in health, fitness, and the wellness industries. From owning and managing health clubs all over Australia and Asia. Health clubs like The Golden Door Group of health retreats. She’s also lectured on corporate health management in universities and is creating a new model for change in the wellness industry with her newest business Wellness Coaching Australia. Fiona is passionate about helping people and organizations be the best they can be. By recognizing that optimal mental health, physical, and emotional wellness are essential for growth of the individual and with in the corporate culture. Fiona welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me today.
Fiona Cosgrove: Thank you. Nice to be here.
Barbara Turley: As always I like to start the show with how I met my guests, and reasons for having them on the show. Fiona and I met last year, I think it was about a year ago now, that we met?
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah it would be about that.
Barbara Turley: We met last year both speaking at an event here in Sydney. I think we probably hit it off because both of use being from northern hemisphere and living in the sunnier southern hemisphere of Australia we probably initially had that connection. Fiona and I were having a really good conversation at the event last year about the connection between wellness and wealth. Actually having financial consciousness, and the impact that has on the world and our own health. I thought it would be really interesting to delve into just how much our finances and feelings about money effect our wellness. Similarly, how much our health and wellness effects our ability to actually make money, and do well in the wealth space. Fiona to kick things off I wanted to start with this concept of wellness. What is it really?
Fiona Cosgrove: That’s a big word.
Barbara Turley: It is a big word. I think people get frightened by this big word.
Fiona Cosgrove: You see it everywhere, they say wellness is a trillion dollar industry these days. It’s a really difficult one to define or at least to get the general impression to the public, that what are we talking about. Obviously it’s something good. Something we all want. To me I had to have a definition because people ask me what do you do, what do you mean, what’s wellness coaching? Coaching is one of the things we want to list as something else. Wellness to me is best described I as optimal mental and physical health. I can even take that further because I’ve had to go to the dictionary to define optimal, because the question came up is it the best someone can possibly be according to the guidelines and the books. Like, how fit can you be, how thin should you be, et cetera? Whereas, if you really look at it optimal is a subjective description. It’s about being the best you choose to be, not about the best you want to be.
Barbara Turley: I like that. The best you choose to be. Finally, we can let go of all these shoulds that we have hanging around us everywhere.
Fiona Cosgrove: I guess with wealth maybe that’s the same thing it’s down to. There’d probably be a lot of people out there who feel that to have more money is better than, you know, the more you can get the more you … Or how much you’re really worth.
Barbara Turley: Or how much should you have before you’re wealthy, considerably.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s very similar. They’re quite similar concepts. It’s an interesting combination you brought together today. I’m happy to chat about it.
Barbara Turley: Do you think the reason people struggle so much with getting well, or being at optimal wellness is because there are so many facets involved in wellness? There’s your fitness, there’s your mental health, your emotional health, and obviously I’m bringing in financial health. What are the other areas that that you touch on in your coaching?
Fiona Cosgrove: Again, it’s a really big topic because I come from a health and fitness background. I used to think it was all about having the best physical fitness you can have. Hopefully a decent body composition. Feeling good about yourself. Whereas, if you start looking at mental health and you start reading the literature and research from people like Dr. Martin Seligman. His definitions of it used to be happiness but it’s interesting that he now calls it well-being. It’s five things, let’s see if I can remember them.
Barbara Turley: He’s moving with the trend.
Fiona Cosgrove: Exactly, I think so and nutrition has been brought into it … The way he described it recently as positive emotions, engagement in life, positive relationships, meaning, and achievement. When I use those five things I always add another P, so I call it PERMA, and add Physical health. There’s not need to divide them.
Barbara Turley: Of course, because it is important in well-being. Why do you think he’d leave physical health out?
Fiona Cosgrove: I think it was all about, from here up. It’s all about mental health whereas the fitness industry and the health industry are all about physical health. Yet to me their completely intertwined. Your introduction to day I found really interesting because often people that someone who works in the wellness industry, the last thing on their mind is building wealth or even acknowledging that wealth has importance. In the definitions I just gave you there was nothing about the dollar sign. It was achievement and that probably is the clue to where money might fit in.
Barbara Turley: Fiona your whole career, really from the beginning has been about health and fitness and wellness. This journey that you’ve been on. Can you tell us where did it all begin?
Fiona Cosgrove: Where did it all begin? I don’t know which part of my life I was in, which career I was in when I started with health and fitness. I suppose I’d always had a passion for it. If you tend to have any ability at sports you become interested in your physical identity. Part of when you grow up and you play sports well that’s part of how you get your self-esteem, and then it’s –
Barbara Turley: You gravitate to what you’re good at as well.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah, but it took few turns into other directions but finally I realized that I was interested working in that area. Without you about all the different jobs that took me there, I ended up being in the fitness industry. Really feeling that I was aligned with the things that I cared about, which was you feel good when you’re fit. In my 20s I was very much about go after the next goal, the next physical goal. Whether it was running a marathon or whatever. I wanted everybody to do the same. Of course now at an older age I realize that probably was useful for about 10% of the people we were dealing with, our clientele. It’s what the fitness industry … It’s changing but it was about, in those days, it was about where the –
Barbara Turley: It’s all about the body.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah the body.
Barbara Turley: And pushing it.
Fiona Cosgrove: And having a good time, and a lot of things that probably gave it a bit of a bad name back in the 80s. From there it evolved and I went from being an educator … I usually say if I brought my two parts of my life together I went from fitness to wellness, and from expert to coach. To do those things there’ve been a lot of business decisions made, and I wouldn’t have been able to do any of those things if the money side of things wasn’t considered.
Barbara Turley: Absolutely. That’s what I think a lot of business owners forget is that it is a really important part of your journey. It comes on the journey with you, it’s the money issue. Over your career were there ever times, and I’m sure there has been, because you’re human and we’re all human, when you let your own wellness at alter. It was stress, overwhelmed, et cetera. What were those times in your life like?
Fiona Cosgrove: I suppose again, now having a better understanding of what wellness is or what it means to me. Not so much what it is, what it means to me. I probably had times in my life where I thought I was on fire. I was striving for whatever it happened to be at the time. Whether it was studying and it was toward a degree or distinction, or whatever you go for and you’re a little bit of a high achiever. Possibly some of those goals might have been other people’s goals, but I thought it was important to –
Barbara Turley: More shoulds
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah, I should do this because it’s expected of me and therefore so and so will think, whether it’s mother or father or whoever, will think that I’ve achieved things. I look back at one time where, God probably a few times, where I had young children and I was studying a degree. I think I was lecturing and I was running a business.
Barbara Turley: You were basically being super woman.
Fiona Cosgrove: Absolutely super woman.
Barbara Turley: How many of us are doing that, we’re all doing that.
Fiona Cosgrove: I don’t even think they know my name in those days. I was breasting then and about two at one stage. I let go of of the sense of how I was feeling. For a few years though I, not totally lost touch, but I was on such a treadmill to get to the next … to check the next box.
Barbara Turley: To get to the next goal.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah, I didn’t really stop and go are you happy?
Barbara Turley: Interestingly, goal setting is something that a lot of cultures will talk about. The power of goal setting. The importance of goal setting. Do you think that sometime we can get lost in that? That goal setting can become like a job in itself that can make you unhappy, and not happy?
Fiona Cosgrove: Absolutely. We’re talking wellness coaching as goals of being the steps along the way to arrive at the place that we describe as being your vision of improved wellness. Goals are more about target … They’re action steps and if you achieve that goal, rather than the big goal. A lot of people think that when they get whatever it is they want. That if-when mentality.
Barbara Turley: Yeah, the then there’ll be.
Fiona Cosgrove: I’ll stop, then I’ll be happy then. It’s the old cliché of it’s not the destination but it’s the journey that usually gives us the most satisfaction. We prefer to think of goals as very necessary steps along the way to creating new habits, which is really what behavior change and wellness is all about.
Barbara Turley: At getting you to put where you’re at, but do you think people struggle with … One of things that I always say is that with money, when I would say that’s my topic, is that money’s really just a tool to be used by you. It’s at your service, there to help you go wherever it is that you want to go. Most people struggle with the where is it that I want to go, and where is it that I should go? Verses what I want. I don’t think that people understand the difference between those two things Is that something you find in your …
Fiona Cosgrove: Definitely, there’s a really good parallel there that money, to me, is a means to an end, but there really isn’t an end because we’re in it for life. We’re not going to get there and get the Ferrari, whatever it is. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having an end goal that might be represented by something that money can buy. It’s down to really what does that represent? Is it about, let’s use Ferrari just as an example because it’s as cliché as you can get.
Barbara Turley: It’s a good example.
Fiona Cosgrove: It represents a certain degree of status. It also represents a certain degree of look what I’ve done. It also could represent I love cars and I just want to sit in a Ferrari, and own a Ferrari, and drive a Ferrari. It doesn’t mean that any of those are wrong and any of those are right. It’s very individual. We can really tie ourselves in knots over this whole topic of what does money actually do for me. I look at it and say a lack of money is a problem. Basically, if you haven’t got it you can’t go after life, but I don’t think having money gives you happiness.
Barbara Turley: Necessarily gives you what you want. Speaking of having no money. I remember being, a few years back, being in a financial strain myself. We’ve all been there. We’ve all had times when we’ve done things that probably lead us to financial strain. I’m someone who is very interested in the wellness industry. I eat really well, I exercise, I get all that. I’m big into personal development and all that stuff. I have to say getting my financial life in order did more for me than any yoga practice or green juice ever could’ve, at that time. Actually, getting my act together and solving some of the debt problems I had, and some of the bad financial management practices that I had. It lifted my energy. I suppose now this is why I feel quite passionately that financial education, or financial responsibility is actually a factor in wellness as well. What are your thoughts on that?
Fiona Cosgrove: I agree with you entirely. Again it’s that flip side of it. It’s not so much that having money give you energy because really when you said to me what’s wellness about. The currency of wellness to me is energy. At the end of the day everybody want it.
Barbara Turley: Yeah, that’s what everyone wants really isn’t it? We all want more energy.
Fiona Cosgrove: More energy, vitality. All that stuff. All the losing weight and all those things are fine. They’re just ways of getting more energy. Financial strain and financial burden is an energy drain. It’s not so much that you’ll get energy from having more money. It’s that if you are under that strain or you’re not in control, and you don’t know where you’re going. You don’t know what’s going to happen next. It can deplete the goodness of your life or the happiness in your life. I feel and I’m with you, It’s absolutely essential for everyone to have a degree of control. One of the biggest drivers in life is to have control. If we don’t know what’s going on with our financial situation we haven’t got control of that area.
Barbara Turley: We don’t have control of that. That’s not to say you can never really have full control of your life. There’s this flow of when you got to let go of somethings. In your financial life it’s certainly a strain that you can take away. I suppose education would be … A bit like what you’re doing in wellness. Do you think education is the key in some of these things to …
Fiona Cosgrove: Do you mean specifically with regard to hunting for wellness?
Barbara Turley: When you think about wellness like when you’re coaching clients. When they get a bit more in the know about what they need to be doing, in order to feel better. It’s the power of coaching I guess, and mentoring.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s funny because there is one side of it where people are thirsty for knowledge and that the way, again when I said, the fitness industry held on to this. The government, everyone is all about if you just tell people the answer they’ll be fine. The reality is people don’t because they actually want to come up with the answer themselves. That’s what coaching is about.
Barbara Turley: What coaching is, yeah.
Fiona Cosgrove: We are autonomous, self determined creatures who like our own ideas better than other people’s. In terms of do people just need to know, is that more empowering? I think it is empowering education, but the kind of real empowerment that people get is when the light bulb goes on in their head. Usually, around self awareness, which I think is more significant often than oh my goodness I have to do it because she did it, he did it, they told me. Self knowledge thing and self awareness.
Barbara Turley: It is that empowerment thing and self awareness. With your own you’ve run mega businesses. You’ve made a lot of money in your time. You’ve been very successful I know that you’ve also lost money in your time. That’s the nature of the business. Do you feel that throughout running … At the height of things in your businesses that if you had, had more guidance or mentoring on financial end of things, do you think it would have been less stressful? How do you feel about that?
Fiona Cosgrove: I think it would have been. It’s very individual isn’t it? If I didn’t have some knowledge, which I did have, it could have been absolutely terrifying. I knew enough to stay above the real stress line. I could imagine if you didn’t have that it could be really not goo for you at all. Yet, I look back now and think what I knew later would have helped me enormously in the early days. Everyone’s relationship with money is very different isn’t it?
Barbara Turley: Yes.
Fiona Cosgrove: That’s really what we’re talking about.
Barbara Turley: Absolutely, because people feel differently about it. Some people are ostrich, head in the sand. They don’t want to look at it, which is so unhealthy in it’s own right. Other people are gung ho after that and that alone, which is also as unhealthy. It doesn’t mean that you have a good relationship with money if that’s all you’re after. The pursuit of money with no greater purpose is the journey into the vortex of emptiness, which is something I came up with the other day.
Fiona Cosgrove: I love it.
Barbara Turley: The other thing I wanted to touch on often we talk about financial strain. Often having a lot of money and being wealthy, but having a lot of decisions to make that you don’t feel confident making. How stressful do you think that is. You’ve been in that situation. If you want to share some of the research..
Fiona Cosgrove: Gosh there’s so much research written on it.
Barbara Turley: You’ve been in a lot of those situations.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah, and lots of research written on that for people who win the lotto. A lot of it’s to do with whether or not you feel you deserve the money. If you suddenly have a windfall and people … it happens all the time. If you don’t believe you deserve that.
Barbara Turley: You’ll get rid of it.
Fiona Cosgrove: You’ll get rid of it very quickly, and you’ll go back to the same state.
Barbara Turley: Like divorces as well, the same thing happens in divorces.
Fiona Cosgrove: So if you suddenly make money … I know in my case we have a couple of really … I look back at my career and go I think did a lot of good wok, and I’ve made some good choices and decisions. God I’ve been very lucky too.
Barbara Turley: There’s always a bit of luck involved. You’ve got to be grateful fro that.
Fiona Cosgrove: Absolutely, because I think that starting businesses … I didn’t start businesses out with my partner then and now my own, to sell them. Now I look back and go well why not, because it’s a nest egg.
Barbara Turley: Yeah, but a lot of people do that. Well, a lot of people as we were talking off camera earlier. You were saying a lot of people, particularly women, are building jobs and not actual businesses.
Fiona Cosgrove: Absolutely, because it’s something to do and often if it business they’re passionate about, we’re so involved in it that we can’t separate ourselves from it.
Barbara Turley: We never see it as an asset that could be sold one day. As we were talking about, things can change. Life can throw different things at you when you may need to sell a company one day.
Fiona Cosgrove: If you do, getting back to that idea, I think about experience of selling the first business. Whether it’s a male or a female thing I don’t know. For me it was great. We sold the business. We had more money than we ever imagined we would. I kind of like yep, great, put it out of there. Now let’s go on with life. Let’s go and do fun things that money can buy and have a bit of time out. Whereas, my partner at the time was very identified with the business, and the job, and his purpose in life. I had two young kids that was all.
Barbara Turley: His sense of identity was taken away. Even though he had a lot of money he had sold the business, which was selling his identity.
Fiona Cosgrove: He said himself that he really struggled with that, so it’s very quickly we went back into another business. There was a difference in male and women, and it depends on the nature of the business. That was the first experience and then the second one when again was not … Certainly didn’t set it up to take the business over on my own with a view of increasing my wealth, or doubling and tripling, whatever it was. It just happened to be the right time and the right place. I’m glad I had the knowledge to know that always take a sale if a good sale comes along. Never hang on and go this is my baby, this is my club, you can’t have it. What could have happened in that case if I hadn’t gone through the tremendously stressful time of choosing it and selling it, and renegotiating at least and everything. About two years later JFC hit, I wouldn’t had a business to sell. I just would not have had a business to sell. It would have just … But it still exists.
Barbara Turley: Speaking of that, it’s a very emotional decision if somebody comes to you, wants to buy your business. What advice would you give to somebody who’s facing that already, might face that in the future? How do you keep your wellness intact when you’re dealing with this large financial decision like that? That may overwhelm you.
Fiona Cosgrove: So much of this comes back to what I really believe in the wellness coaching model that we use, which is not necessarily as to say helping people get fit or thin, or whatever. It’s about living a good life. Living a life that got life satisfaction. A lot of that comes from the energy.
Barbara Turley: And fulfillment.
Fiona Cosgrove: Fulfillment. So if when you write a, we call, a vision statement of the way you’d like things to develop. Not necessarily the thing that you haven’t got the Holy Grail, but this is the way I’d like my life to be. It might be mainly like that but but you might like to make improvements in certain areas, so you might talk about what you want more of. It becomes fairly clear as to what’s most important for you. Again, it’s almost like this money is a means to an end. If someone said well am I going to take the money and run, or am I going to stay in the business that I love and have so much meaning?
Barbara Turley: I would write that as a consideration.
Fiona Cosgrove: What you have to look at then is what will the money enable me to do? What risk do I take by not … it’s kid of life isn’t it? It’s currency of life, energy, and money and currencies of life.
Barbara Turley: Currencies of life, yeah absolutely.
Fiona Cosgrove: If you really need to do something passionately then you’ve got to ask yourself the question can I do that again in another way, and to have the money as well?
Barbara Turley: Yeah, because that is my vision. The vision that you’ve been on for so long has been this business or this idea or this giving back. Now somebody comes wanting to buy it . While the check might feel great, what’s the money without the vision, or without your –
Fiona Cosgrove: What’s the next challenge? If there is a challenge, what’s the next challenge? We encourage people to think like that to. As you said, it’s that flexibility. It’s not that this is the way I want my life to look. If something comes out at you this side do you go okay, given the new information what can I do with it? If it’s finances …
Barbara Turley: There’s something I’ve been talking to some of my clients about. Is saying that when it comes to making business decisions, I always try to say to them it’s very important and what you said about having you own personal vision first. Whatever business decision or financial decision you make, it must align with what your personal vision. Not the other way around. Otherwise you are on the road to unhappiness and lack of clarity. I suppose that would be something else I try and get people to make decisions based on that. It’s not about the money or the size of the check, or whatever it is that you’re going to do. It’s about what impact is it going to have on your personal vision of your life.
Fiona Cosgrove: We talk about where we say about the vision where she says what’s the value behind that, that’s another way of putting it in to compartments in a way. To way this is what I want in my life because this is important to me. It might be freedom, it might be family, it might be helping, it might be … Whatever anyone of those things, everyone’s going to have very different values.
Barbara Turley: It’s getting clear about actually what those values are. What does money, I ask clients this as well, what does money mean to you personally? I can’t actually tell somebody … I can teach people all the tools, and strategies, and tactics about becoming wealthy, but I can’t teach them what view they want when they get to the top of the mountain that they’ve chosen. That’s something that they have to do for themselves.
Fiona Cosgrove: That’s a really good way of putting it.
Barbara Turley: I always say to people it’s really important to start with that because I can help you get there, but if you get to the wrong place I can’t change it.
Fiona Cosgrove: Also a good way of putting it, especially in the wellness industry where so many people work, and they often say I’m the luckiest person in the world because I work in an area. They are if the rest of their life is working okay, but being the luckiest person in the world and not having enough money to pay the bills or the mortgage, I don’t think he’s that lucky.
Barbara Turley: Do you think some of it, particularly in the wellness industry I would see this … I have a lot of friends who are yoga teachers and stuff like that. It’s changing a lot now but there used to be the catch-cry in the industry, ‘but I’m not into the money’.I used to think, really you can’t step out of the door because you don’t have any money. Money is unfortunately … You have the wheel of life, I think they need to add in that financial element, because it is a part of your well-being and your life. It does, it states for things.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s a measure of success for yourself, and that’s my personal view for me being successful in the businesses I’ve had, and in my current business which I never set up to be a money making, or to sell, or anything. I look now I’m excited by the financial success of that business now, because it means that what we’re doing is working. We’ve now got the capability of getting it out there to more people. The money for me is not about I’ve got this much in the bank, or I’m going to be okay. I can live until I’m 95, or whatever we were saying earlier. It’s down to now we matter. Now we significant.
Barbara Turley: Now you say people willing to pay for the value that you are giving because you are honoring the value exchange, which is your gift service. You’re honoring the value exchange in terms of money coming back and that money can then be used to service and give more value to more people. The value exchange is being honored and from that you can see that your work is being honored.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s very important. It’s also an indication of the fact that people are interested in what we’re doing. So they’re not a lone. They need it, they’re willing to pay for it. They want it, they’re ready for it. Seven years ago people said what’s wellness, what’s coaching? It represents a lot of different things. I don’t there’s anything wrong with feeling the nice warmth of financial stability.
Barbara Turley: Of knowing it’s been a success.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yeah, and I think I said earlier that you count and you matter. In today’s world, in business, it’s important to have a good financial standing. Otherwise, people don’t pay attention. It’s not about throwing the money around but it’s about being able to say we’re doing okay.
Barbara Turley: What we’re doing here matters and that it’s needed.
Fiona Cosgrove: Yes, and we thought about it. We don’t just think about the product, we think about the actual structure of the business and the way we create it. It reminds me of the days when Gym industry was flourishing again, early 80s we’re talking about There was a Gym on every corner. They were selling lifetime memberships and everyone was say isn’t it wonderful.
Barbara Turley: All those leg warmers.
Fiona Cosgrove: They went broke two weeks later. They’d join the 700 hundred members and then the doors would close.
Barbara Turley: What was that … what happened there?
Fiona Cosgrove: That was rife, there were many changes that did that. The fitness industry had the dirtiest reputation of any industry. Literally, in the 80s. We were fighting against that. People didn’t want to know about it, because they said you take our money, you close your door and that’s what’s happening. There wasn’t a good business model behind it. It was personal pride.
Barbara Turley: This is great because a lot of people I speak to there’s the importance of the business model. It’s not just about the passion that you have for your message or what it is that you do, but the business model matters. It really matters.
Fiona Cosgrove: I was thinking of an analogy when we were talking earlier. I don’t really sit around … I’m not going to count the dollars. I get excited maybe once a month when I look at the bottom line and go yay we did good. That’s fine. I don’t stress on the detail every day. To me having a good financial stability is a bit like living at home if my closet was all disorganized, and there are clothes lying all over.
Barbara Turley: Yeah, and clothes all over the floor.
Fiona Cosgrove: I like it to be in order. If someone’s taking care of the boy’s stuff that I don’t know, and then telling me what I need to know so I can make the decisions that I’m good at. But if it’s all over the shelf –
Barbara Turley: That’s when it’s stressful. Even when your wardrobe is all over the place, that’s quite stressful in your life.
Fiona Cosgrove: It is, and I feel exactly the same way about both those things. Some people are really happy with their wardrobe or whatever that awesome is.
Barbara Turley: All over the place.
Fiona Cosgrove: String all over the place and they seem to be able to move forward, but I think it’s very difficult.
Barbara Turley: We must be very alike then, because for me that would be … We must be type A personalities.
Fiona Cosgrove: Also people with money too have to be in control of every cent.
Barbara Turley: That’s a problem too. That’s when they won’t let you do anything. We all have different issues. Moving on slightly, I wanted to touch on your work in the corporate world. You also work with corporates on wellness within their company, in the employees. Is that …
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s certainly becoming … Go through a rapid growth area. Corporate wellness or corporate health has been around for awhile. Back in the early days when I was supposed to actually be teaching a subject called corporate health management, nobody knew anything about it. I was trying to find someone who was doing something, somewhere. Not to talk about.
Barbara Turley: It’s would have been considered a bit woo-woo actually. Having been in the corporate world myself I can imagine only the big companies would be doing corporate wellness program.
Fiona Cosgrove: The gym, the subsidy gym membership and that was it. To maybe a stop smoking talk once a year, or something like that. Interesting presenting conferencing, occasionally at the health and productivity conference. It’s been slow growth and they’ve gone through this phase of going at the end of the day we just want to know what the dollar value is, putting, spending this much money. That can be quite difficult.
Barbara Turley: Because you can’t really measure that.
Fiona Cosgrove: There’s three ways of measuring it. What they do it absenteeism, presenteeism, and turn over of staff. The last one is lonely just starting to be noticed. Employers who offer good structured corporate health benefits or programs. It’s not just that, it’s actually showing … It shows that they care and they’ve become an employer of choice.
Barbara Turley: People want to work there.
Fiona Cosgrove: People start gravitating to those companies, because of the culture within the company. In terms of the types of programs that are being offer now, we’re seeing a lot of last resort. I can’t remember what the phrase is where this … say the minds or these industries where people are burning out, or suffering from big worker’s compensation claims, rehab, everything. They go we’ve got to fix these people or we got other ways –
Barbara Turley: Well because there’s a shortage of more people coming, so they have all feel shortage.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s costing them a fortune when people can’t works, so it’s all about getting then back to work. It’s a bit like after the horse has bolted, but at least it’s a start. Now they’re starting to realize that said coaching, in other words, helping people with behavioral change is a good thing. Again, they’re focusing very much on the people who need to fix their lives. Whereas, in an idea world to make wellness coaching –
Barbara Turley: You would get them before that.
Fiona Cosgrove: Get them before, yeah. Preventative measures actually help people make choices in their daily routine, which is boring because it’s all made up of habits. That support their energy levels because it they’ve got better energy levels they’re going to be better employees.
Barbara Turley: Recently, I been reading a lot about this whole triple bottom line and accounting, which is say that for companies now, the focus is not only on profit but on people and planet. What you’re really dealing with is people end and getting the most of out your human capital, which is part of a company. Anyone running a big company out there it is really important wellness of your employees, and the happiness of them.
Fiona Cosgrove: I’ve actually just written some of it for a level three training on happiness. We talk about whether it’s … All wellness, whether we should be focusing on the individual or collectively. There’s a lot written now even in countries, so we know Bhutan has been the only country that’s measured on gross national wellness. No sorry, Gross domestic happiness I forget what you call it now.
Barbara Turley: Oh really. Are they real?
Fiona Cosgrove: They actually have a measure of it. A lot of the countries, even in England, they’ve now got seven tenants of wellness. On how they judge the well-being of the country. They all –
Barbara Turley: So it’s really coming to the for all.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s changing from the how rich are we to how well are we.
Barbara Turley: How well are we.
Fiona Cosgrove: How happy are we. That’s exciting.
Barbara Turley: That is really exciting. I feel as well, if we can get away from … Because money has such a bad rap. You and I talked about this, it has such a bad rap. It upsets me because money is a neutral thing, it’s nothing. It takes on the values that we give it . If it has an ugliness attached to it, it’s not because it Is inherently ugly. It’s the people who have and what we’re doing with it.
Fiona Cosgrove: What we do with it, yeah.
Barbara Turley: I do think this whole movement of consciousness Globally in lots of different spaces is fabulous. The wellness and hopefully wealth, I’m trying to push it through in the wealth space as well. Even in conscious leadership and conscious capitalism, all these different things. Interesting.
Fiona Cosgrove: There’s a lot of interesting stuff written all out I’ve noticed here that book is one of my favorite books here. The happiness project.
Barbara Turley: The happiness project?
Fiona Cosgrove: It has a great chapter on money which I’m sure you’re familiar with. It was saying how there’s lots of different classifications as to how is … Does money but happiness. She makes a really good point that money doesn’t buy happiness, neither does good health. Health doesn’t buy happiness.
Barbara Turley: No it doesn’t.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s almost like you need to have them both in order to be able to live a good life, and have purpose and meaning what you do.
Barbara Turley: It’s like this whole thing when we started the conversation, wellness. There are so many facets of wellness that you always need all these different areas working in the same way. To achieve true wellness and wellness as your own definition.
Fiona Cosgrove: One thing that’s really struck me where it’s the relativity of wealth. She looked at the research and said if you’re fairly wealthy … That people who earn over a certain amount of money were happier than people who earned less. One of the points she made was that happiness and financial … The luxury between finances and happiness was also relativity. In other words, if you had four cows and your neighbor had three You’d be pretty happy.
Barbara Turley: You were pretty happy until the next neighbor has six.
Fiona Cosgrove: There it is in today’s society, and the thing is that’s human nature. It’s human nature isn’t it to say whether you’re driving a –
Barbara Turley: We want to be topped. I suppose it’s that whole survival of the fittest thing. We want to be topped up.
Fiona Cosgrove: It’s almost a sad reflection on human nature in a way, but it’s interesting to bear that in mind. What we’re doing is saying that wealth represents that we’re doing something better than other people.
Barbara Turley: Than other people which makes us feel successful. It’s that achievement part of the wellness thing that you were talking about.
Fiona Cosgrove: I find it quite sad in a way too, because there are a lot of wealthy people who don’t judge themselves in their millions. Other people out there who their money defines them and they expect others … Their privilege evolves and they always expect to have privilege because of what they own.
Barbara Turley: Because of who they are and what they own. Fiona, as a savvy fem-treprenuer doing amazing things in business, what does the future hold for Fiona Cosgrove?
Fiona Cosgrove: At the very grand age of I shouldn’t disclose it, should I? I’m at this stage now where I thought I would be nicely retired. I tried that a few years ago.
Barbara Turley: You tried that but you didn’t like it.
Fiona Cosgrove: I didn’t, it was very boring. I don’t think retirement features in my long term plan. Right now it’s a nice place to be to go oh now let me revisit the things that I maybe have had time to do. The travel, and the freedom, and the exploration, and the unfulfilled goals of writing. Really analyzing my life to say am I building into the things
Barbara Turley: That are really important to you.
Fiona Cosgrove: That are really important to me, that aren’t just about building empire or building business. I’m pleased to say that I feel, financially, that if I wasn’t in the position that I’m in now, in other words, If we were still striving and struggling. Trying to get things across the line. I wouldn’t be able to do that. Now I can do that. It’s a great place to be because at the end of the day we all know when you drop dead it’s not what your bank balance it. It’s probably what legacy you’d leave, or how much fun you’d had, or what people said about you.
Barbara Turley: It’s you epitaph isn’t it. What people say about you at your funeral kind of thing.
Fiona Cosgrove: I’d rather people remembered me for something other than oh she made a lot of money.
Barbara Turley: Yeah she was loved, she was bloody loaded.
Fiona Cosgrove: Moving forward I’ll never stop striving for new goals in terms of the next challenge or the next exciting thing.
Barbara Turley: That keeps people alive though doesn’t it.
Fiona Cosgrove: Definitely.
Barbara Turley: You have to have things to look forward to, and to thrive for.
Fiona Cosgrove: I would choose not to have a huge financial windfall, which a lot of people would go, “You’re joking are you?” I’d go no because it’s actually a pain in the butt, because you’ve got to decide what you’re going to do with it.
Barbara Turley: You’ve got to manage the money then. You’ve got to figure out how you’re going to manage it.
Fiona Cosgrove: Those things we spoke about earlier, is that big financial wealth brings with it it’s own problems.
Barbara Turley: It does, it brings it’s own.
Fiona Cosgrove: How do people see you? Are they judging you because of your financial success or your wealth, or who you are?
Barbara Turley: That does effect your level of self-esteem. In different way. Sometimes it can be positive or negative, yeah.
Fiona Cosgrove: Money, that’s no the necessary evil, because I think money is a great thing. As Gretchen Rubin says, it can buy happiness in certain ways. She talks about mini splurges like it depend on what you splurge on. It depends on what you spend your money on as whether money can buy happiness, but not having money and enough money to live definitely can make you unhappy.
Barbara Turley: Can definitely make you unhappy, I know. If our viewer want to find out more about the great work that you do where should they go?
Fiona Cosgrove: Www.wellnesscoachingaustralia.com.au
Barbara Turley: They can find out all about your training. For anyone out there who are ever thinking about becoming a wellness coach you couldn’t learn from someone better than Fiona Cosgrove. She runs brilliant training programs for coaches.
Fiona Cosgrove: Thank you.
Barbara Turley: If I wasn’t doing what I’m doing wellness coaching would be something I would definitely be interested in doing.
Fiona Cosgrove: Fantastic. Maybe one day. Wealth and wellness coaching.
Barbara Turley: Wealth and wellness coaching, there’s an idea we can collaborate on something I think later.
Fiona Cosgrove: Definitely.
Barbara Turley: Thanks so much for being with me here Fiona it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you to every one for watching again for another week, and remember that you can catch me later on this week on iTunes. On my wealth unplugged podcast, where I’ll be talking about my key takes from my chat with Fiona today. It’s creep bite-size chats of what we talked about today. Remember to also to tune in next week, where I’m going to be talking to girl called Natasha Moy from Girlpower Goddess. We’re going to be talking about why is it that women feel so embarrassed about admitting that they want to make Squillions of money? See you then.
Check out our interview in the video above…